tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post5022712232701933792..comments2023-06-15T09:13:45.467-04:00Comments on Liberty's Torch: Recourse To FundamentalsFrancis W. Porrettohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-71079188778051587752014-07-27T23:06:21.110-04:002014-07-27T23:06:21.110-04:00i should add that the best we can do is agree, or ...i should add that the best we can do is agree, or not... and that conflict between these two mutually exclusive worldviews is inevitable.<br /><br />or as mike v would say - do the people serve the state, or does the state serve the people.bryan in vtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-21045148976119678182014-07-27T23:03:46.219-04:002014-07-27T23:03:46.219-04:00it seems clear that the dilemma here is probably t...it seems clear that the dilemma here is probably the one that gives the right pause and blunts any righteous sword we might choose to wield - which is that only an individual may identify morality as a foundation, but that no individual may impose it upon another out of respect for the fact that morality is freely accepted as such or meaningless...bryan in vtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-88751402820491743822014-07-27T14:51:53.392-04:002014-07-27T14:51:53.392-04:00Well, there's the thing.
A) Reason is inappl...Well, there's the thing. <br /><br />A) Reason is inapplicable to moral premises.<br /><br />B) "A lot of people" would agree with the moral premises Christ postulated, whether or not they "Believe in that Bible stuff."<br /><br />C) The implication of Dagny's point is that if she (or anyone) does NOT agree with the moral premises of Jesus or "a lot of people," you can't argue with her (or them) or expect them to change except on their own terms.<br /><br />I agree with all that. What "gets me" is that nobody except us (we?) crazy right-wing bloggers<br />seem to be applying any sort of attention to the morality of government or its practitioners.<br /><br />Then again, we seem to be the only ones looking at the morality of cultures with any sort of objectivity, so I'm not surprised that this culture is not looking at its government with a view consistent with my own. Tim Turnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-35591703843206086182014-07-27T05:34:08.832-04:002014-07-27T05:34:08.832-04:00What was it I said about the inapplicability of re...What was it I said about the inapplicability of reason to moral premises, Tim? And (postulating for the sake of the discussion that God exists) what does <i>your</i> mind say about the Two Great Commandments and the Seven that Christ commended unto the "rich young man?" That they're "reasonable?" Or that they comport with your own moral premises, wherever those might have come from? Finally, do you think Dagny would have disagreed? If so, why?Francis W. Porrettohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-6826950521985852872014-07-26T23:51:50.438-04:002014-07-26T23:51:50.438-04:00Fran, I've had a bad day. I know better than t...Fran, I've had a bad day. I know better than to do this, but I want to argue with you.<br /><br />Your points seem to flow, but, playing devil's advocate, let me start here:<br /><br />"There is no salvation in human authorities. He who claims to stand as "an intermediary between God and man" is quite as dangerous as any coercive institution."<br /><br />And you add Dagny's assertion, "To place nothing--nothing--above the verdict of my own mind."<br /><br />...she speaks tellingly of the pretensions of both secular and religious authorities."<br /><br />You then quote: "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."<br /><br />Well, any "reasonable person might agree, but according to DAGNY's thesis perhaps her own mind might find that commandment repugnant to her own thinking. That is, I don't think Jesus' words ANSWER or repute Dagny's assertion of, "her own mind."<br /><br />The trouble is, we as a group have lost the ability to JUDGE the mind of someone like Obama - by his actions - as something we want to have nothing to do with.<br /><br />We allow him to speak for hope, change, fantasy or power instead of using our own minds and morality to judge. Yes, judge.Tim Turnernoreply@blogger.com