tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post1910090012229626574..comments2023-06-15T09:13:45.467-04:00Comments on Liberty's Torch: Once we took the high road.Francis W. Porrettohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-84501193961134574622016-01-26T16:38:28.481-05:002016-01-26T16:38:28.481-05:00Reg, I referred to the American political class an...Reg, I referred to the American political class and presidential candidates not just just presidents. Gingrich was beholden to Adelson the last time he ran for president and Adelson is devoted to the interests of Israel. Rubio in this cycle has been reported to call Adelson frequently to ask him for his opinions and advice. I already mentioned the Adelson primary that had the platoon of Republican hopefuls paying court to him in Las Vegas. I presume the influence of Haim Saban is as strong among the Democrats. Carter and Obama appear to have been and/or to be hostile to Israel but any foreigners know that presidents come and go.<br /><br />The subject of Jewish influence in American politics is a complex one. Well, not really so much complex as tendentious. Charles Percy took a position that the organized Jewish community took to be anti-Israel decades ago and Illinois was subsequently flooded with Jewish money when he ran for re-election which no one doubts caused his defeat. The details are a bit vague to me now so correct me on any errors.<br /><br />A few congressmen may have ignored Netanyahu in Congress but it cannot be gainsayed that the assembled multitude was up and down with its standing ovations like puppets. Money flows to Israel in prodigious amounts. Frankly, it is a disproportionate amount given Israel's minimal strategic value to the U.S. But yet it flows.<br /><br />I don't think Israel is at heart our friend as the Pollard case and, if true, Israel's sale of our technology to the Chinese (and Soviets?) attest. I will never forgive Israel for its attack on the USS Liberty and its multitudinous lies about their deliberate attack. LBJ contributed to the loss of life and the attack on the Liberty is the only time that such an attack was not made the subject of a naval board of inquiry. Something was very rotten about that.<br /><br />I'm indifferent to anyone's "ancient homeland" claims. I don't mean that sarcastically. My bottom line is simply that you only have sovereignty over what you can take and hold militarily. If the Arabs want Israel it's <em>molon labe</em> time all day every day. Jews left or were kicked out of their ancient home a long time ago so that extinguished their claim forever. Historic claims or Old Testament claims are worthless.<br /><br />As I said, I do support Israel and its desires for a mono-ethnic state free of Africans and with second-class rights for Moslems. Multiculturalism and diversity are not Israeli values and rightfully so for they are the precise formula for destruction of the majority population. Would that the organized Jewish community would support the white majority in America and our interest in not descending into an amorphous ethnic and racial glop. However, as <a href="http://www.vdare.com/articles/jewish-fear-and-loathing-of-donald-trump-2-new-york-values-vs-muslim-immigration" rel="nofollow">Kevin MacDonald points out</a> the 1965 change in our immigration law that opened the door to third-world immigration to the U.S. was "was fundamentally a project of the organized American Jewish community." (Link omitted.) People notice these things.<br /><br />As I say, I do lean toward Israel and hate the terror attacks its citizens must endure. However, I'm not sure we don't hold the short end of the stick in our strategic relationship with Israel and a good deal more skepticism is in order on that point. However, as I say, they're Westerners facing the Islamic enemy and I support them in that battle, which is the same one we must fight. However, something's not right with about the activities of the ADLs, David Gelbaums, Adelsons, and the Barbara Lerner Spectres of this world.<br /><br /><br /><br />Col. B. Bunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09590364016079745156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-89787599324606394452016-01-24T00:46:19.417-05:002016-01-24T00:46:19.417-05:00Pundita, I also apologize quite sincerely for maki...Pundita, I also apologize quite sincerely for making the assumption I did. Obviously, "I could be wrong" translates as "I was indeed wrong." I should have clarified the source before jumping to the conclusion that your otherwise insightful writing was marred by what was actually a misquote.<br /><br />Col.,<br /><br />I will give you that a number of our representatives in Congress have indeed groveled before _American_ Jewish groups (mostly liberal Jews who don't deserve that sort of attention), but I cannot recall any president groveling before Israel. I have never paid much attention to individual Congresscritters who may, in fact, have groveled before Israel, but I would bet my next pension check they were few and far between, especially since so few American Jews really support Israel, so there would have been few votes to gain by doing so. <br /> <br />A few presidents have _supported_ Israel, because she is the closest thing to a democratic republic that has ever existed in the Middle East, because they oppose the damage Arabs (who have fought each other for so many years) and muslims seek to do to all of the rest of us, and because the Israelis deserve to be supported in a return to their ancient homeland (Palestine was Hebrew long before any Arabs tried to redefine it to mean an Arab land) after suffering centuries of oppression and genocide.<br /><br />Then you have Carter, Clinton, and the Bushes who were either damaging to Israel or at the very least indifferent and unhelpful, no matter what public posture they may have taken. I'm sorry, but I truly cannot think of any of our politicians - especially fake Jews like Schumer, Feinstein, etc, - who have ever groveled before Israel. Groveling before AIPAC and other Jewish organizations, sure.<br /><br />And the invitation of Netanyahu to speak before Congress was a sop to some, but Pelosi and many other Democrats ignored him or were even openly contemptuous of him. It was cheap publicity for some of the Republicans who were hoping to collect a few more Jewish votes, but I really don't think it supports believing that Israel has a lot of influence in America, let alone in Congress. Just a few crass politicians, but I'm being redundant, aren't I?Reg Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099612693763932005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-86501608858016444942016-01-21T19:54:32.858-05:002016-01-21T19:54:32.858-05:00Pundita, I apologize for my tardy clarification. ...Pundita, I apologize for my tardy clarification. Comments are not published here after review but are rather subject to scrutiny after the fact. I don't usually revisit my posts here to address comments until some time after I upload them and thus the delay in clarifying that you are not the source of what I wrote.<br /><br />I regret anything that suggested otherwise. You have never expressed the opinion that I have in this post and it is entirely mine.Col. B. Bunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09590364016079745156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-33156750314314030962016-01-21T19:45:33.863-05:002016-01-21T19:45:33.863-05:00Reg, please note that Pundita is not guilty of ant...Reg, please note that Pundita is not guilty of anti-Semitism and the words are mine entirely. Take me to task for what I write but not her. :-)<br /><br />You are correct that Obama taken all the actions you describe. That behavior of his is an aberration in our history of our dealings with Israel. I don't begrudge our support of Israel and cheer it on in any contest with its Muslim enemies. I support Israel for two primary reasons: (1) they control Israel militarily and are entitled to be treated like any other nation that does the same. (2) They are Westerners who are hated by Muslims.<br /><br />However, the behavior of our political class toward Israel in general does constitute groveling in my view. Examples can be found in the statements of several Republican presidential candidates now and in the past have gone out of their way to proclaim their firm support of Israel. It was one of the things Ms. Fiorina made a point of proclaiming, for example.<br /><br />That is well and good but it's also clear that the influence of AIPAC and Sheldon Adelson of the Adelson primary fame are such as to strike fear in the hearts of any man or woman with political ambitions in America. The invitation of Mr. Netanyahu to speak before a joint session of Congress and his treatment there is evidence of the political influence that Israel exercises in America. <br /><br />I consider this to be quite uncontroversial.Col. B. Bunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09590364016079745156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-49253024410622617782016-01-21T16:37:09.722-05:002016-01-21T16:37:09.722-05:00It's because I'm the one and only moderato...It's because I'm the one and only moderator, Pundita, and I didn't know it either. I'm sure Reg considers himself properly chastened, but that's the sort of misunderstanding that can develop from a short quote from a longer essay. The only sure-fire countermeasure is, of course, to post the entirety of your essay here at <b><i>Liberty's Torch,</i></b>, but that wouldn't have been fair to you.<br /><br />All my best,<br />Francis W. Porretto<br />Curmudgeon Emeritus to the World Wide Web<br /><br />Francis W. Porrettohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-88971827001402918772016-01-21T16:17:12.951-05:002016-01-21T16:17:12.951-05:00Reg T: I did not write the words "grovel befo...Reg T: I did not write the words "grovel before the Israelis." I made no mention whatsoever of Israelis in the Pundita post that Col. Bunny pulled quotes from. He quoted three paragraphs from my post; the rest of the text, including the mention of Israelis, I will presume was written by Col. Bunny given that he's shown as the author of the post.<br /><br />Col. Bunny: Given that this is a moderated comment section, I don't understand why you didn't point out to Reg T that he had wrongly attributed a statement to me.<br /><br />Pundita<br /> Punditahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09255618281071848583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-208394894506809912016-01-21T15:24:30.488-05:002016-01-21T15:24:30.488-05:00Doesn't it make you wonder, the way some folks...Doesn't it make you wonder, the way some folks - as obviously intelligent and insightful as this "Pundita" - cling to the notion that we "grovel before the Israelis"? <br /><br />How can a person who is being rational (about Jews - and therefore Israelis - at least) look at how Obama and his other muslim-loving partners-in-crime have disrespected Netanyahu, have pushed Israel to stop building homes for its people, have pushed for Israel to lose more "land for peace" and otherwise submit to the terrorists living on the West Bank, in Gaza (and as citizens throughout Israel) and still say he has groveled before Israel? <br /><br />He has done more than we have the faintest idea of to harm her, and set her up for destruction at the hand of islam. Including giving Iran the complete details to Israel's nuclear weapons and the protocol concerning their use. And he has assisted Iran in continuing to develop nuclear weapons (I don't recall centrifuges being necessary to the production or use of uranium for peaceful nuclear power) which threaten not only Israel, but America as well. With the knowledge that a U.S. government that would do these things will obviously not come to Israel's defense should Iran attack.<br /><br />I could be wrong, but I believe Pundita is merely trying to cover her/his anti-Semitism by using "Israelis" instead of "Jooz".Reg Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099612693763932005noreply@blogger.com