tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post504616669121732115..comments2023-06-15T09:13:45.467-04:00Comments on Liberty's Torch: Language Corruption ContinuesFrancis W. Porrettohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-49881361013460491042014-07-23T23:03:32.668-04:002014-07-23T23:03:32.668-04:00Sadly, Libertarians as I understand them, do not h...Sadly, Libertarians as I understand them, do not have a great respect for moral and religious tradition. I generally prefer Paleoconservatism. They are generally strict constitutionalists, while adhering to traditional notions of morality, family, etc. Sadly, they don't register even a blip on the radar screen anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-50146923807667329962014-07-23T15:29:34.961-04:002014-07-23T15:29:34.961-04:00Late to the party, but the concluding words, "...Late to the party, but the concluding words, ". . . Americans will sink into passivity and despair," caught my attention.<br /><br />Describes me to a T.Tim Turnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-63364083355818446632014-07-22T17:24:03.010-04:002014-07-22T17:24:03.010-04:00"Serious" seems to me to be an unimporta..."Serious" seems to me to be an unimportant qualifier that serves only to distinguish serious discourse from frivolous or trivial discourse. It is a given in my mind that the latter kind of discourse would not require study or discussion, though it's true I like to listen to an Obama speech from time to time for the entertainment value. Deliberate or ignorant misuse of language is a problem in discussions of non-trivial subjects though.<br /><br />The gravamen of your post is that imprecise language has serious consequences. "Serious" is not an illustration of that problem. However, "publicly agreed upon" is the problem concept because deceivers and the ignorant will by definition distort or get the meaning wrong. There is, thus, no hope of agreeing on meaning with those people. The meaning of "racism," "interstate commerce," "hate," "right-wing," "progressive," or "privilege" must be found in sources written or compiled in times prior to the times when precision would defeat political objectives. Learned people look for truth not agreement with others.<br /><br />Col. B. Bunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09590364016079745156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-43240821666202061582014-07-22T04:43:50.142-04:002014-07-22T04:43:50.142-04:00Concerning the "publicly agreed upon" me...Concerning the "publicly agreed upon" meaning of a word, why would you use a word in "serious discourse," if you and your listener couldn't (or wouldn't) agree on what it means?<br /><br />(Compare this to the commonplace Leftist notion of "our truth.")Francis W. Porrettohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-1480870733897314592014-07-22T04:41:18.224-04:002014-07-22T04:41:18.224-04:00Here's what I had in mind with the "subtl...Here's what I had in mind with the "subtle application" jab:<br /><br />"We think in symbols -- words. He who wishes to enlist your mental resources in the effort to confuse you will endeavor to cloud your understanding of the words by which you represent important concepts. By implication, it is vitally important to all <b><i>serious</i></b> discourse that we hold fast to the accurate, publicly agreed upon meanings of words."<br /><br />Think about the etymology of the word <i>serious.</i> Then think about the way the word is routinely, casually used. Can you see the connection?Francis W. Porrettohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-89178249951142493372014-07-20T15:41:46.524-04:002014-07-20T15:41:46.524-04:00Hmmm. You don't appear to limit your challeng...Hmmm. You don't appear to limit your challenge to identifying just one word. You say "There's a good example in the paragraph above [of some words {that} can be subtle in application]. Look for it [the example]."<br /><br />My identification of "publicly-agreed upon meaning" seems to fit the bill of concealing true meaning. For example, virtually the entire cadre of judges and lawyers in this country (publicly) agree that "constitutional" means whatever absurd interpretation of the Constitution that the Supreme Court comes up with. Thus, the absurdity of the Court's Commerce Clause interpretations is accepted as Holy Writ. However, as Ed Meese pointed out years ago, the Constitution means what the Constitution says (aided here by our knowledge of the original understanding of what the Commerce Clause actually means). The "publicly-agreed upon" meaning of the Constitution is light years from the true meaning with precisely the damage to public policy and the assignment of proper punishments and rewards about which Zi Lu was speaking. Accurate does not, thus, mean publicly-agreed upon. <br /><br />Perhaps you are focusing on "accurate" as meaning "publicly-agreed upon." If so, that's a subtle transformation of accurate that eliminates orginalism as the best tool for interpreting the Constitution.Col. B. Bunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09590364016079745156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-65614954297995799372014-07-20T12:07:01.510-04:002014-07-20T12:07:01.510-04:00C'mon, Guy. (And "guys.") Ask yourse...C'mon, Guy. (And "guys.") Ask yourself two questions: Given any word you might care to select,<br /><br />1. <b><i>What</i></b> does it mean?<br /><br />2. <b><i>Why</i></b> does it mean that?<br /><br />The underlying principle is the key to this whole discussion.Francis W. Porrettohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-12501371426476712992014-07-20T11:58:15.049-04:002014-07-20T11:58:15.049-04:00Even this ol retired Sailor raised his eye brow up...Even this ol retired Sailor raised his eye brow upon reading, "publicly agreed upon meanings of words." .<br /><br />Something akin to accepting science via consensus?Guy Shttp://navvet55.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-7194488633813714832014-07-19T18:26:07.231-04:002014-07-19T18:26:07.231-04:00I formed the habit many years ago when someone ask...I formed the habit many years ago when someone asks me a question to say, "That depends on what you mean by whatever the subject word is."<br /><br />For instance, if someone would ask me if I was a conservative (that actually happened at my little job a few weeks ago), I immediately would say, "What <i>exactly</i> do you mean by conservative? I can't answer you until I know what you mean."<br /><br />It's impossible to have a meaningful discussion if two people are talking about two different things. <br /><br />The truth is, most people have no idea of what they're talking about - even with "publicly agreed upon meanings of words." When I read that my reaction was, "Huh?"<br /><br />Adriennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01562944653624224107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-5801092447056545142014-07-19T17:57:52.854-04:002014-07-19T17:57:52.854-04:00"Publicly agreed upon"
Got it before I ..."Publicly agreed upon"<br /><br />Got it before I saw the Col.s' comment.<br /><br />jbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6557458849091969678.post-89634613606376926102014-07-19T12:08:21.810-04:002014-07-19T12:08:21.810-04:00In think you be jerking our chain wih "public...In think you be jerking our chain wih "publicly agreed upon meanings of words," Fran.Col. Bunnyhttp://igst.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com